The Intraday US Stock Market Discussion Board
https://bbs.cobrasmarketview.com/
No. It's YGE.noob wrote: Cobra, are you talking about the market? Thanks
completely agree with almost everything you're saying here.SWalsh wrote:First post here, but I've been reading Cobra for 2+ years.
I have been running a program called HFTAlert that shows HFT and Algo participation. Having done quite well for many years using Elliott Wave with just RSI and MACD as a divergence tool, short-term EW is utterly broken. You can see it when the mkt is, as a pretty hard rule, ready to plunge in a continuation pattern and 10%+ of US stocks get hit with quote stuffing in one second. There was a day in early December where the Dow trade up 70 points and back down in one second. Most thought it was a bad print. When you see 5 cent ranges in SPY and suddenly a 25-50 point move happens, virtually 100% of the time computers hit it. Whose fingers are on the buttons at key points is something I will let others decide for themselves. I already have strong feelings given that into some declines there is one, just one, massive hit that stops the decline. One trader who uses DeMark setups, which he says many trading firms and mutual funds use, have gotten signals and moments later the mkt is violently moved in the opposite direction. Deeper pockets seem to always win. The largest ping of the day was at 10:58 that took it through the 9:41 low. I'm just beginning to put things together with the liklihood of when they will act, but I doubt I will trade trying to guess what someone else will do. Had that attracted selling they would have jumped in front of the selling and instantly hit it down. And they can trade in literally an instant.
EW-wise, I would argue that it is quite possible that we just put a solid top (ending diagonal) in that speaks of breaking the August lows. Will it happen? After 3 months of watching 1 minute bars and how the "pings" are often in the last 5 seconds of a bar to get its close higher, it is man against machines with unlimited money. The fear and greed needed for EW to work if often absent and surely has greatly declined. The mkt is nothing like it was up until 2008 since WW II. IMO, it is a completely new game we play, and God forbid you don't at least have orders loaded to click-to-enter, for 15-20 seconds when you decide to act might get you to trade into a spike that will just as quickly turn the other way. The parasites act on the orders that lay on the books as well as ones that enter and they will add a latency to the system through quote stuffing to trade ahead. When it's slow, the faster HFTs try to trick the algos into trading. Even Grasso, who let this in, is saying the machines need to be ripped out. They have decimated public participation.
I'm glad to be here AND for just $10. There's a nice group of people throwing out ideas. And thanks to 99er and his semi-Gartley pattern. 128 puts bought at 5 were sold at 35 this morning when I saw him write two words, which I think were, "That's It".
SWalsh wrote:First post here, but I've been reading Cobra for 2+ years.
I have been running a program called HFTAlert that shows HFT and Algo participation. Having done quite well for many years using Elliott Wave with just RSI and MACD as a divergence tool, short-term EW is utterly broken. You can see it when the mkt is, as a pretty hard rule, ready to plunge in a continuation pattern and 10%+ of US stocks get hit with quote stuffing in one second. There was a day in early December where the Dow trade up 70 points and back down in one second. Most thought it was a bad print. When you see 5 cent ranges in SPY and suddenly a 25-50 point move happens, virtually 100% of the time computers hit it. Whose fingers are on the buttons at key points is something I will let others decide for themselves. I already have strong feelings given that into some declines there is one, just one, massive hit that stops the decline. One trader who uses DeMark setups, which he says many trading firms and mutual funds use, have gotten signals and moments later the mkt is violently moved in the opposite direction. Deeper pockets seem to always win. The largest ping of the day was at 10:58 that took it through the 9:41 low. I'm just beginning to put things together with the liklihood of when they will act, but I doubt I will trade trying to guess what someone else will do. Had that attracted selling they would have jumped in front of the selling and instantly hit it down. And they can trade in literally an instant.
EW-wise, I would argue that it is quite possible that we just put a solid top (ending diagonal) in that speaks of breaking the August lows. Will it happen? After 3 months of watching 1 minute bars and how the "pings" are often in the last 5 seconds of a bar to get its close higher, it is man against machines with unlimited money. The fear and greed needed for EW to work if often absent and surely has greatly declined. The mkt is nothing like it was up until 2008 since WW II. IMO, it is a completely new game we play, and God forbid you don't at least have orders loaded to click-to-enter, for 15-20 seconds when you decide to act might get you to trade into a spike that will just as quickly turn the other way. The parasites act on the orders that lay on the books as well as ones that enter and they will add a latency to the system through quote stuffing to trade ahead. When it's slow, the faster HFTs try to trick the algos into trading. Even Grasso, who let this in, is saying the machines need to be ripped out. They have decimated public participation.
I'm glad to be here AND for just $10. There's a nice group of people throwing out ideas. And thanks to 99er and his semi-Gartley pattern. 128 puts bought at 5 were sold at 35 this morning when I saw him write two words, which I think were, "That's It".
Thanks. I'm quite lost today. French downgrade was confirmed, yet market is going back up.Cobra wrote:No. It's YGE.noob wrote: Cobra, are you talking about the market? Thanks
I've learnt long time ago, don't try ever to understand the market's logic.noob wrote:Thanks. I'm quite lost today. French downgrade was confirmed, yet market is going back up.Cobra wrote:No. It's YGE.noob wrote: Cobra, are you talking about the market? Thanks
I have never read Hemingway, but I'm working on a noel and have found I should be reading all the great novel writers. So I'm now listening to "A Farewell to Arms" and I need to contact Audible.com to see if there is a different reader I can dwnload. The reader sounds like comedian Steven Wright, which is really making it entertaining, but not in a way to listen to how he is writing!Al_Dente wrote: PS: I too like Hemingway. Here’s the encouragement/support he got from his mom, oy…
Wow, that's a lot of risk...stucap wrote:i'm taking another crack at shorting this crummy market.......80.50 ES...stop 83 ES.
all we need is a tick at 1283 ES and whooooooooooossshh!! Bear fail.jarbo456 wrote:no one is mentioning the W bottom that's forming on the 5 minute chart...
is this really going to be an f'n explosion to the upside into the close?
2.5 points? are ya serious? banked 6.25 so far today so, playing with house money.waverider wrote:Wow, that's a lot of risk...stucap wrote:i'm taking another crack at shorting this crummy market.......80.50 ES...stop 83 ES.
This for me is the biggest problem with HFT's. I can live with them and trade around them but quote stuffing creates less transparency in the markets.jarbo456 wrote:completely agree with almost everything you're saying here.SWalsh wrote:First post here, but I've been reading Cobra for 2+ years.
I have been running a program called HFTAlert that shows HFT and Algo participation. Having done quite well for many years using Elliott Wave with just RSI and MACD as a divergence tool, short-term EW is utterly broken. You can see it when the mkt is, as a pretty hard rule, ready to plunge in a continuation pattern and 10%+ of US stocks get hit with quote stuffing in one second. There was a day in early December where the Dow trade up 70 points and back down in one second. Most thought it was a bad print. When you see 5 cent ranges in SPY and suddenly a 25-50 point move happens, virtually 100% of the time computers hit it. Whose fingers are on the buttons at key points is something I will let others decide for themselves. I already have strong feelings given that into some declines there is one, just one, massive hit that stops the decline. One trader who uses DeMark setups, which he says many trading firms and mutual funds use, have gotten signals and moments later the mkt is violently moved in the opposite direction. Deeper pockets seem to always win. The largest ping of the day was at 10:58 that took it through the 9:41 low. I'm just beginning to put things together with the liklihood of when they will act, but I doubt I will trade trying to guess what someone else will do. Had that attracted selling they would have jumped in front of the selling and instantly hit it down. And they can trade in literally an instant.
EW-wise, I would argue that it is quite possible that we just put a solid top (ending diagonal) in that speaks of breaking the August lows. Will it happen? After 3 months of watching 1 minute bars and how the "pings" are often in the last 5 seconds of a bar to get its close higher, it is man against machines with unlimited money. The fear and greed needed for EW to work if often absent and surely has greatly declined. The mkt is nothing like it was up until 2008 since WW II. IMO, it is a completely new game we play, and God forbid you don't at least have orders loaded to click-to-enter, for 15-20 seconds when you decide to act might get you to trade into a spike that will just as quickly turn the other way. The parasites act on the orders that lay on the books as well as ones that enter and they will add a latency to the system through quote stuffing to trade ahead. When it's slow, the faster HFTs try to trick the algos into trading. Even Grasso, who let this in, is saying the machines need to be ripped out. They have decimated public participation.
I'm glad to be here AND for just $10. There's a nice group of people throwing out ideas. And thanks to 99er and his semi-Gartley pattern. 128 puts bought at 5 were sold at 35 this morning when I saw him write two words, which I think were, "That's It".
i worked for a fund, discretionary fund - but had several acquaintances at HFT funds. i would say that it was definitely in 2007-2008 that they became explosively more popular/well known? hard to say what the difference is. what was apparent though, at the time i didn't know it, was that it was becoming more and more difficult to create discretionary trade ideas - it felt as if we were trading against a huge trading partner we didn't know who (certainly knew it wasn't our PB's taking risk against us). as a result, our fund founder explored bringing on a team of HF traders to explore algo trading currency/commodities. these guys were all PhD level programers/engineers. what i didn't get until recently was "how" they created these HF trades. what i now know is, as you wrote, "stuffing" quotes to create latency so that they could front run and or overrun existing trades at millisecond speeds is the common "game". they've gone far and above that, but the basic strategy is the same..."layering" of quotes to create confusion for large fund traders, and to create latency for their HFT algos to trade ahead of or over.