12/14/2015 Live Update

[Unique]

GOOGL: daily bull bar engulf, it was sticksaved earlier today at the 50SMA, now at 20EMA res. Tech stocks were easier to trade today

Same for AMZN, bull bar engulf like

[Out of Bounds]

Spy is right on Pivot point.

[Cobra]

well, guess that's it for today. Tuesday tomorrow has been a little bit bull friendly recently. thank you guys, I'll see you tomorrow.

before the close, please take a little time to vote for me, thanks. https://stockcharts.com/public/1684859/tenpp

[MrMiyagi]

qqq

[josephli]

Today it’s “Gating”
Nobody is mentioning the “Forward Pricing” dilemma in 1987, wherein clients sold their mutual funds on that fateful Monday morning in October, and because MFs were “Forward Priced” they got their exit priced at the close, which happened to be 22.7% lower.
Does anybody know if mutuals still operate on “Forward Pricing” ?
(SERIOUS QUESTION)

i remember seeing an article way back saying SEC allow mutual fund to do so. or mutual funds are allow to charge extra "trading fee". i forgot which one, but the idea is similar. That is, mom and pop are trapped (sorry).

[Trades with cats]

Don't forget MaryJoe has given the money market funds the right to gate if they feel the need. Of course with all the new rules from Congress to make us safe I really don't know why the Fed Reserve insuisted on that provision for money market funds

[Al_Dente]

Boss, the issue of those funds/traders is their trading book is so large that they can't just quit their position easily, especially there is little buyer on the assets. the chart is about an ETF here, but they are holding individual issues of junk bonds (very low liquidity). then they are mutual funds. it is just painful.

I don’t understand your point
The ETFs are comprised of hundreds of “individual issues of junk bonds”
HYG holds 1,029 separate junk issues, and JNK holds 789 issues

[Unique]

Lowered ES target to 2015 from 2022 EOD

2015 EOD target is fulfilled without the train conductor, oh well

[daytradingES]

16:05

[daytradingES]

Today it’s “Gating”
Nobody is mentioning the “Forward Pricing” dilemma in 1987, wherein clients sold their mutual funds on that fateful Monday morning in October, and because MFs were “Forward Priced” they got their exit priced at the close, which happened to be 22.7% lower.
Does anybody know if mutuals still operate on “Forward Pricing” ?
(SERIOUS QUESTION)

i remember seeing an article way back saying SEC allow mutual fund to do so. or mutual funds are allow to charge extra "trading fee". i forgot which one, but the idea is similar. That is, mom and pop are trapped (sorry).

My understanding of mutual funds is that they price their holdings at the end to the day and regardless of when you put your order in during the day you get that (total holdings/number of units). It has always been like this including 1987.

I have never heard it call the term you have used (forward pricing) it is simply redemption.

(aside ETF are bought and sold during the day on an exchange)

[Al_Dente]

My understanding of mutual funds is that they price their holdings at the end to the day and regardless of when you put your order in during the day you get that (total holdings/number of units). It has always been like this including 1987.
I have never heard it call the term you have used (forward pricing) it is simply redemption.
(aside ETF are bought and sold during the day on an exchange)

got it, thanks

[josephli]

Today it’s “Gating”
Nobody is mentioning the “Forward Pricing” dilemma in 1987, wherein clients sold their mutual funds on that fateful Monday morning in October, and because MFs were “Forward Priced” they got their exit priced at the close, which happened to be 22.7% lower.
Does anybody know if mutuals still operate on “Forward Pricing” ?
(SERIOUS QUESTION)

i remember seeing an article way back saying SEC allow mutual fund to do so. or mutual funds are allow to charge extra "trading fee". i forgot which one, but the idea is similar. That is, mom and pop are trapped (sorry).

My understanding of mutual funds is that they price their holdings at the end to the day and regardless of when you put your order in during the day you get that (total holdings/number of units). It has always been like this including 1987.

I have never heard it call the term you have used (forward pricing) it is simply redemption.

(aside ETF are bought and sold during the day on an exchange)

My understanding of mutual funds is that they price their holdings at the end to the day and regardless of when you put your order in during the day you get that (total holdings/number of units). It has always been like this including 1987.
I have never heard it call the term you have used (forward pricing) it is simply redemption.
(aside ETF are bought and sold during the day on an exchange)

got it, thanks

The SEC has just proposed a change. it allows mutual fund to "swing price" redemption.

article here: http://www.sec.gov/news/pressrelease/2015-201.html

"The proposed reforms also would provide a framework under which mutual funds could elect to use “swing pricing” to effectively pass on the costs stemming from shareholder purchase or redemption activity to the shareholders associated with that activity. The swing pricing proposal would enable mutual funds, subject to board approval and oversight, to reflect in a fund’s net asset value (NAV) costs associated with shareholders’ trading activity. It is designed to protect existing shareholders from dilution associated with shareholder purchases and redemptions and would be an additional tool to help funds manage liquidity risks. "

Not sure how it would be implemented from different funds.

[josephli]

Boss, the issue of those funds/traders is their trading book is so large that they can't just quit their position easily, especially there is little buyer on the assets. the chart is about an ETF here, but they are holding individual issues of junk bonds (very low liquidity). then they are mutual funds. it is just painful.

I don’t understand your point
The ETFs are comprised of hundreds of “individual issues of junk bonds”
HYG holds 1,029 separate junk issues, and JNK holds 789 issues

I may have misunderstood your original post. What i meant was:

1. As a small trader, if you trade ETF, market maker is there to maintain the liquidity. You can always find a counter party for your trade, as long as you are willing to pay the spread. (I have yet to see a market maker to walk away from an ETF as yet).

2. For a much bigger fund, you probably hold individual bond and a lot of these bonds are traded OTC through broker-dealer. that is, when you want to sell, there may not be a buyer in place or there may not any buyer at all.

therefore the liquidity risk faced by different trader is different. Even from a junk bond fund's perspective, this is dire as:

1. bond market other than treasuries is less liquid than futures and blue chip stocks. if you ever want to buy individual muni bond, you will know this.
2. the usual counter party, i.e. the big banks are walking away from the market due to various reasons.
3. as mutual fund, they can't go heavily shot or hedge their position.

For the mom and pop, those 1,2,3 will end up transferring to them through swing pricing when they redeem. you are right, individual should have escaped and may still be able to escape for now.

[daytradingES]

...Also on Wednesday = VIX expiration
Then on Friday = OPEX and EX-DIVIDEND DATE ON SPY

Hi al thanks for the charts on indicies below 200 d - posted on the weekend.
A question:
Does bat shit crazy mean down?

It means seismic like an earthquake, radical up down up down (which is the usual FOMC action, but this one may be more pronounced)

Thanks Al

BTW from ZH is an article that supports your bat-shit day and it may turn into a huge slide
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-0 ... ing-answer